Curse

Tarus From Taros · Oct 14, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

73 pages of bickering and we still don't even know the details about this change yet. Instead of wasting time arguing about things we have very little knowledge of why not spend that time emailing/PM'ing Anet, Gaile or Alex asking them to give us the details on it. Surely if we all knew the specifics there wouldn't be so much commotion.

Akhilleus · Oct 14, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay. Fame and Rank are NOT.

yet you are FAR more likely to be left out of a group because of the lack of rank, than you are because of the lack of a crystalline sword.
funny how something that doesnt effect gameplay can have that effect, is it not?

MSecorsky · Oct 14, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

yet you are FAR more likely to be left out of a group because of the lack of rank, than you are because of the lack of a crystalline sword.
funny how something that doesnt effect gameplay can have that effect, is it not?

I've never been left out of a quest group for either reason. Maybe, just maybe that's true for HA... but I don't tend to hang around there.

How again is it a bad thing for me to be able to swap around my mods/inscriptions to build weapons of choice? I seem to be missing responses to this simple question.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros

73 pages of bickering and we still don't even know the details about this change yet. Instead of wasting time arguing about things we have very little knowledge of why not spend that time emailing/PM'ing Anet, Gaile or Alex asking them to give us the details on it. Surely if we all knew the specifics there wouldn't be so much commotion.

While I agree that we need more information from ANET, emailing or PMing them won't do any good. They always refer us back to the forums to ask our questions. Go try it and see.

Tarus From Taros · Oct 14, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

You are most definatly right about emailing but I do know that Gaile and Alex frequent these forums quite a bit, perhaps someone can get into contact with them via PM or other means in order to persuade them to reply in this thread with details on all of this? Honestly after all this debate on the subject i'm amazed that they havn't broke their vow of silence on the matter.

Akhilleus · Oct 14, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

umm....4 sets of FoW, >3500 hours in game, over 6.9 million xp on JUST my necro, 1.5 million in gold, numerous perfect gold items, ectos, shards, and greens, and anywhere from 2 to 7 armors for all six chars.

yet, by your own admission, you still dont have the items you want, and are willing to endorse inscriptions because of it.
you're the same as most other pro-inscriptionists; you're in it for yourself, the difference is you have a little money behind your name.

and, because i know you're going to bring up my previous statements that there are a few items i want and do nto still own, and somehow try to relate that to my argument, let me first clarify.
while there are items i want and do not have, i will not support inscriptions merely to get what i want, you will. that, is where we are different.
you are willing to put aside the patience required to get the items you want for the sake of supporting inscriptions, so that you may get them immidiatly. this tells me you have little patience, which is what it comes down too.
"good things come to those who wait."

on another note, for someone who is so against wealthy players going around torting their possessions, you do a pretty good job of it.
yet, you've had no qualm with accusing me of being a schauvanistic social pariah, which is amusing, because of the literally HUNDREDS of people who know me (even most who know me well), very, very few have even the slightest clue of how wealthy i am...i find that funny since im aparently such an egotistical showoff.
if someone asks to see my collections, ill be happy to share them, and answer any questions posed. but, i dont go around to random people broadcasting my holdings and demanding respect in return (something you're obviously not shy of doing). yet in your mind, i remain the showoff. funny.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

How again is it a bad thing for me to be able to swap around my mods/inscriptions to build weapons of choice? I seem to be missing responses to this simple question.

Because there is no real response to this. Other than their self interest in keep prices high and being elite running around with their rare skins.

And really, my support for the salvaging system has nothing to do with rare skins, I'd just like a more flexible system. I'm sure most people want that too. But the anti-inscriptionists keep insisting that it's all about the rares. And I'm just getting tired of trying to get that idea out of their skulls.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros

You are most definatly right about emailing but I do know that Gaile and Alex frequent these forums quite a bit, perhaps someone can get into contact with them via PM or other means in order to persuade them to reply in this thread with details on all of this? Honestly after all this debate on the subject i'm amazed that they havn't broke their vow of silence on the matter.

I personally havent PMed them but I'm sure someone has, afterall this is a pretty controversial subject. Besides, they cant possibly have missed this thread. I'm pretty sure they're choosing not to respond for whatever reason that they have.

Loviatar · Oct 14, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros

to reply in this thread with details on all of this? Honestly after all this debate on the subject i'm amazed that havn't broke their vow of silence on the matter.

feel free to laugh later if my guesses are wrong...........here goes

1 it will be as simple as possible to avoid introducing bugs

2 inscriptions will be another mod and simply unlocked to salvage them.

3 space is tight so expert kit not another space hog inscription kit.

4 think cap sig and skill menu from dead boss

5 substitute expert kit for cap sig ...substitute prefix/inscription/suffix menu for boss skill menu and click the one you want

Akhilleus · Oct 14, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Because there is no real response to this. Other than their self interest in keep prices high and being elite running around with their rare skins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

How again is it a bad thing for me to be able to swap around my mods/inscriptions to build weapons of choice? I seem to be missing responses to this simple question.

because, in response to both these arguments, we anti-inscriptionists have been posing mediums through this whole thread.
from making inscriptions limited to collectors/greens only, to introducing every possible modification via collectors/crafters, to being able to choose the mods on collectors/crafters items, to making inscriptions for ch3 items only, the list goes on...and for each medium we've proposed, that would make available every possible weapon mod, each has been shot down.
why?
because as i've said before, the main interest of (most) pro-inscriptionists is to obtain the same skins without any entailed additional time. you guys veil your personal greed behind the arguments of evening the playing field in terms of item stats, but each time a middle-ground is proposed a counter-argument such as "but why should we limit our options?" is posed. again, its because pro-inscriptionists couldnt give 2 cents about getting the items with the mods they want...they dont care about function, they care only about vanity. plain&simple.

the few honorable pro-inscriptionists who argued nothing but economics and longevity, as well as the benifit to the population as a whole, have long since abandoned this thread. in their place now stand a legion of people interested in nothing but their own personal furtherance, regardless of the cost to others.
the irony, is that if most of the current pro-inscriptionists abandoned the thread, and it went back to the old pro-inscriptionists arguing on a basis of logic rather than greed, your argument would be FAR more convincing.

Tarus From Taros · Oct 14, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I personally havent PMed them but I'm sure someone has, afterall this is a pretty controversial subject. Besides, they cant possibly have missed this thread. I'm pretty sure they're choosing not to respond for whatever reason that they have.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned "vow of silence" in my last post. It's hard for me to belive they are totally ignorant to this big topic at hand. For whatever reason they are staying quiet about it and instead of all this petty arguing back and forth I say let's start requesting some answers! Gaile and Alex, please shed some light to this topic please! Pretty please, with cherries on top!

MSecorsky · Oct 14, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

because, in response to both these arguments, we anti-inscriptionists have been posing mediums through this whole thread.
from making inscriptions limited to collectors/greens only, to introducing every possible modification via collectors/crafters, to being able to choose the mods on collectors/crafters items, to making inscriptions for ch3 items only, the list goes on...and for each medium we've proposed, that would make available every possible weapon mod, each has been shot down.
why?
because as i've said before, the main interest of (most) pro-inscriptionists is to obtain the same skins without any entailed additional time. you guys veil your personal greed behind the arguments of evening the playing field in terms of item stats, but each time a middle-ground is proposed a counter-argument such as "but why should we limit our options?" is posed. again, its because pro-inscriptionists couldnt give 2 cents about getting the items with the mods they want...they dont care about function, they care only about vanity. plain&simple.

the few honorable pro-inscriptionists who argued nothing but economics and longevity, as well as the benifit to the population as a whole, have long since abandoned this thread. in their place now stand a legion of people interested in nothing but their own personal furtherance, regardless of the cost to others.
the irony, is that if most of the current pro-inscriptionists abandoned the thread, and it went back to the old pro-inscriptionists arguing on a basis of logic rather than greed, your argument would be FAR more convincing.

And amazingly, in all this post, you never answer the question.

What harm is there in me, personally, being able to shuffle inscriptions and mods around, creating the weapons of my choice? Posting what you think are alternatives doesn't asnwer the question. Thinking I want this for the sake of having perfect rare skins is absurd... I don't buy anyhow. Any fun skins I have I found. What harm is there in me taking a skin I found, and like, and making it the perfect weapon for me or one of my heroes?

I have a gold archaic axe I found. Not a demand item, but looks cool as hell... big sharp pointy rock on a stick. Why should I not be allowed to take the weapon I found and enhance it to what I want?

Who does that harm?

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

the few honorable pro-inscriptionists who argued nothing but economics and longevity, as well as the benifit to the population as a whole, have long since abandoned this thread. in their place now stand a legion of people interested in nothing but their own personal furtherance, regardless of the cost to others.
the irony, is that if most of the current pro-inscriptionists abandoned the thread, and it went back to the old pro-inscriptionists arguing on a basis of logic rather than greed, your argument would be FAR more convincing.

I am really getting tired of a bunch of people like you who by their own admissions dont want their personal stashes to drop in price, admit that only a few select people should have rare skins, and only care about the economy but not anything else calling us greedy.

Seriously how hyprocritical is that?

And since when is improving a game feature labeled as greedy?

Flowah · Oct 14, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I'm not reading through 70+ pages of nonsense, but I will address the hilarity of economic ignorance that is the opening post.

Whites will not start selling for 100k+. Unless white drop rates are somehow nerfed. Whites are very common, it's not difficult to obtain whites/blues/purples/golds with max stats and a low req. There's no reason for the price to go up. Also, people will still care about the gold lettering. Just as people today will pay 500k for a gold 20/20 regular skinned prot staff when a collectors staff is only different because it's blue.

If anything, this will make everything CHEAPER. There are /TONS/ of max gold low req weapons out there that don't get sold because of crappy inherent mods. Anyone ever sold 14^50, 14% vs hexed, 20V50 weapons? Yeah, it's hard. Basically what you've got is way increased supply of rare weapons with max stats, and people will want them now, because now they aren't useless. They will be /CHEAPER/.

Greens and collectors items are already hilariously cheap. Have you seen the price drops for the greens? This triple green drop weekend has sent Ghials to 5-7k, Rajazans used to be 50k, now they are going for 10k. No one /ever/ bought collectors weapons, they just bought the certain collector drops for maybe 100-300 a piece. You're not losing a huge market here. Besides, this point is a direct contradiction to your first point. People buy greens because they are cheaper alternatives to perfect gold weapons. Why would people start buying 100k+ white weapons, inscriptions, and whatever else, when cheap perfect green weapons are still available?

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but bots increase supply and make things cheaper. Seriously, give me an example of things that have gone up in price. As far as I can tell, all the runes are MUCH cheaper, green weapons are too, gold armors in the Forge are 24k for 7. I used to be able to get 10k per gold armor.

Basically, I'm saying you've never taken basic high school economics and have a pretty bad grasp of logical thinking. This change will lead to decreased prices all around. Inscriptions will probably hover around 20-30k for a while, then drop down to 5-10k I predict. Rare skins will drop in price only a little bit. Max Gold crystallines/dwarvens/sephis axes are still pretty tough to come by. Every other desired (but not rare) like Zodiacs will drop in price like CRAZY. You go for 1 run in an elite missions, snatch up some max gold weapon with worthless damage mods, and slap some perfect 15^50's on there and you got tons of zodiacs flooding the market. Cheap prices mmm..

@ Akhilleus
Uhh. Ok... Why not make all mods act that way. I was always puzzled as to why Anet would let EVERY mod in the game EXCEPT for damage mods(and precious, salvage, recharge/cast) salvagable. This move is just making things the way they should be. From now on, lets make every mod act the way you want them to. HP mods, sundering, vamp mods, now they are all inherent. Wheeeeeeeeeeeee. Now your weapons are crazy expensive. Is that what you wanted? Never to be able to mod your weapon ever again? And isn't it hilarious that you're attributing greed to people who like the idea of inscriptions when thats /exactly/ the basis for your being against them?

>>>> regardless of the cost to others.<<
What cost is it to you? Now you can't control click your weapon set of perfect rare skinned items and have people go WOW, YOU ARE MR. PVE ALLSTAR. I BOW DOWN TO YOUR LEET FARMING ABILITIES TO BUY SUCH A WEAPON. Oh. That's the reason? Wow, a lot more stupid than I imagined, but unsurprising.

sumrtym · Oct 14, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

and, because i know you're going to bring up my previous statements that there are a few items i want and do nto still own, and somehow try to relate that to my argument, let me first clarify.
while there are items i want and do not have, i will not support inscriptions merely to get what i want, you will. that, is where we are different.
you are willing to put aside the patience required to get the items you want for the sake of supporting inscriptions, so that you may get them immidiatly. this tells me you have little patience, which is what it comes down too.
"good things come to those who wait."

on another note, for someone who is so against wealthy players going around torting their possessions, you do a pretty good job of it.
yet, you've had no qualm with accusing me of being a schauvanistic social pariah, which is amusing, because of the literally HUNDREDS of people who know me (even most who know me well), very, very few have even the slightest clue of how wealthy i am...i find that funny since im aparently such an egotistical showoff.
if someone asks to see my collections, ill be happy to share them, and answer any questions posed. but, i dont go around to random people broadcasting my holdings and demanding respect in return (something you're obviously not shy of doing). yet in your mind, i remain the showoff. funny.

That doesn't change the fact a lot of things are near impossible to get. This makes them MORE accessible, but certainly not a gimme.

And quoting small half-statments ftw? I haven't been bragging about what I have....if you bothered to quote the rest of that. I only said it for a response to the "i'm obviously poor and want this cause I don't put time into the game", something I've been accused of over and over of in this thread.

Ya, there's a big difference between me and you. I'm straightforward and honest about why I want the change that benefits EVERYONE, you're deceitful in your arguments against it because you want to deny accessibility to people to preserve your "wealth". The references in your name to if it's cheap it's not worth buying and 15^50 tell everyone what they need to know about you, no matter WHAT you say.

Fist_of_God · Oct 14, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Well, based upon what gaile said in another forum through the chat log someone posted, it seems to be that only new chapter 3 weapons can be salvaged for the mods. Still no response as to how or if we can apply them to old chapter 1- 2 skins. I would post the link, to that specific chat log, but I think it might be against forums rules, not sure though.

sumrtym · Oct 14, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fist_of_God

Well, based upon what gaile said in another forum through the chat log someone posted, it seems to be that only new chapter 3 weapons can be salvaged for the mods. Still no response as to how or if we can apply them to old chapter 1- 2 skins. I would post the link, to that specific chat log, but I think it might be against forums rules, not sure though.

She actually said she wasn't sure, but didn't think so, and everytime since has refused to comment on the salvage system.

Mournblade · Oct 14, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

From a programming point of view, it woulnd't make sense to give extra salvageability to newer weapons only. But nobody knows for sure... yet. :P

Rera · Oct 14, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

How again is it a bad thing for me to be able to swap around my mods/inscriptions to build weapons of choice? I seem to be missing responses to this simple question.

The answer to your question depends on exactly what you mean by building a weapon of choice.

If you mean, "why can't I get a bow, sword, axe, hammer, or daggers with the inherent mods that I want", the answer to that is you can - find the appropriate collector, weaponsmith, or green item.

If you mean, "why can't I get a wand, focus, staff, or shield with the inherent mods that I want", the answer is that you should be able to, and as I've said now three times in this thread, it would be a welcome change.

If you mean, "why can't I get the *skin* I want with the mods I want", the answer is that it defeats the point of having a game economy. If this is your question, it's similar to wondering why you can't craft Fissure armor for the same price as 1.5k Droknar's. Skins have no practical impact on the game, so there is no convincing argument for why they should just be handed to you.

Zehnchu · Oct 15, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The answer to your question depends on exactly what you mean by building a weapon of choice.

If you mean, "why can't I get a bow, sword, axe, hammer, or daggers with the inherent mods that I want", the answer to that is you can - find the appropriate collector, weaponsmith, or green item.

If you mean, "why can't I get a wand, focus, staff, or shield with the inherent mods that I want", the answer is that you should be able to, and as I've said now three times in this thread, it would be a welcome change.

If you mean, "why can't I get the *skin* I want with the mods I want", the answer is that it defeats the point of having a game economy. If this is your question, it's similar to wondering why you can't craft Fissure armor for the same price as 1.5k Droknar's. Skins have no practical impact on the game, so there is no convincing argument for why they should just be handed to you.

To continue this thread is pointless, because it always comes back to being about money. You really think Anet doesn’t know what makes up the majority community of GW? You would know that they have said that players with 20k and less make up the majority community. And again if a million people don’t buy from you in the first place it’s not going to have an affect on the “economy” nor you if those same million people never buy from you at all.

Can you see the point I am making here? It means what they chose to do will not, can not, nor will never affect your “economy”.

The value of an item is base on one thing, how much can I sell it for and how much more can I sell the same one for later. This is a trend that was started and then other people saw and then jumped on the money train. Every new item added the game the first asking price is always 100k+xx ectos. This isn’t about the “economy” of the game. Since everyone in the game knows the price will drop in a few days. ToPK, Factions, Totem axe, rotwing bow the list goes on.

Take the “economy” out of you argument maybe then you will have more of a valid point.

by the way..farmers and hoarders don't care about the “economy” it's about personal gain.